Veikkausliigan voimasuhteet 2023

[Untermars]

Tuossapa sarjan jokaisen joukkueen seitsemän seuraavaa peliä. Lihavoiduilla joukkueen vieraspelit. Kalenterissahan nämä ottelut näyttävät aivan toiselta, esim HJK:n kuudes peli on Interiä vastaan, ja Interille se on vasta kolmas.

Lahdella varmaan hankalin ohjelma, mutta Hongalla ikävimmät matkat melkeinpä alkuun, mutta ehkä silti tuo KuPS:n tilanne on melko mielenkiintoinen, koska siellä on molemmat Honka-pelit sekä Oulu ja HJK.

	1	2	3	4	5	6	7
HJK	VPS	ACO	Haka	KuPS	KTP	Inter	Ilves
KuPS	Honka	Ilves	IFK	HJK	ACO	Honka	Lahti
Honka	KuPS	Haka	VPS	Lahti	Haka	KuPS	ACO
ACO	HJK	SJK	Ilves	KuPS	VPS	Honka	Lahti
SJK	Lahti	ACO	Inter	Ilves	KTP	KuPS	HJK
Inter	Lahti	SJK	HJK	IFK	Haka	Honka	KTP
Ilves	KuPS	KTP	ACO	SJK	HJK	VPS	Lahti
Haka	Honka	HJK	KTP	Honka	IFK	VPS	Inter
VPS	HJK	Honka	IFK	ACO	Haka	Ilves	KTP
Lahti	SJK	Inter	Honka	KTP	KuPS	ACO	Ilves
KTP	IFK	Ilves	Haka	HJK	Lahti	SJK	Honka
IFK	KTP	KuPS	VPS	Haka	Inter	HJK	ACO

[Hugh]

Hongan olisi tosiaan tärkeää saada hyökkäystään kuntoon, ja löytää avauskokoonpanoon tehokkaita hyökkäyspään kavereita. Näkisin Hongan menestyksen kannalta kuitenkin myös hyvin isona kysymyksenä sen, miten rohkeasti uskalletaan kierrättää pelaajia ja saada täten koko pelaajamateriaalista mahdollisimman paljon irti. Laatua / potentiaalia löytyy penkiltäkin. Viime vuosi oli Vasaralta mainio, mutta miinuksena se, että Honka jumittui samaan avaukseen pelistä toiseen. Vaikkei pelitahti Veikkausliigassa kovin hurja ole, niin tämä alkoi painaa muutamissa jaloissa ja tulokset heikkenivät syksyä kohti mennessä. Niille avarin pelaajille tulee myös takuulla joitain loukkaantumisia + korttitilin täyttymisiä, ja tietynlaisen kilpailuasetelman pitäminen avarin pelaajia kierrättämällä voi myös olla hedelmällisempää kuin samojen pelaajien avauskokoonpanon paikkojen jatkuva betonoiminen.

Tietysti jokaisessa joukkueessa on muutamia avainpelaajia, jotka pelaavat ansaitusti jatkuvasti avauksessa, mutta harvemmin ihan kärkisijoista pystyy taistelemaan, jos kierrättäminen on kovin vähäistä (toki poikkeuksiakin on, kuten IFK Mariehamnin mestaruusvuosi, joka taisi tulla varsin kapealla rosterilla). Mielenkiinnolla odotan, miltä Hongan kokoonpano seuraavissa peleissä näyttää, ja vähän pelkään, että joka matsissa ovat samat nimet kentällä.

[werner]

Aika fakiiri saa olla, jos pystyy nimeämään yhtään sattumaa suuremmalla varmuudella hopea- ja pronssijoukkueen noista 6-8 potentiaalisesta.

AC Oulu ja SJK. Saa ottaa talteen.

[DDrogba]

Hongan olisi tosiaan tärkeää saada hyökkäystään kuntoon, ja löytää avauskokoonpanoon tehokkaita hyökkäyspään kavereita. Näkisin Hongan menestyksen kannalta kuitenkin myös hyvin isona kysymyksenä sen, miten rohkeasti uskalletaan kierrättää pelaajia ja saada täten koko pelaajamateriaalista mahdollisimman paljon irti. Laatua / potentiaalia löytyy penkiltäkin. Viime vuosi oli Vasaralta mainio, mutta miinuksena se, että Honka jumittui samaan avaukseen pelistä toiseen. Vaikkei pelitahti Veikkausliigassa kovin hurja ole, niin tämä alkoi pien avauskokoonpanon paikkojen jatkuva betonoiminen.
ainaa muutamissa jaloissa ja tulokset heikkenivät syksyä kohti mennessä. Niille avarin pelaajille tulee myös takuulla joitain loukkaantumisia + korttitilin täyttymisiä, ja tietynlaisen kilpailuasetelman pitäminen avarin pelaajia kierrättämällä voi myös olla hedelmällisempää kuin samojen pelaaj
Tietysti jokaisessa joukkueessa on muutamia avainpelaajia, jotka pelaavat ansaitusti jatkuvasti avauksessa, mutta harvemmin ihan kärkisijoista pystyy taistelemaan, jos kierrättäminen on kovin vähäistä (toki poikkeuksiakin on, kuten IFK Mariehamnin mestaruusvuosi, joka taisi tulla varsin kapealla rosterilla). Mielenkiinnolla odotan, miltä Hongan kokoonpano seuraavissa peleissä näyttää, ja vähän pelkään, että joka matsissa ovat samat nimet kentällä.

Nähdäkseni Mateo Ortiz ja Florian Baak on hankittu juuri kierrätystä varten. Viime kaudella tosiaan pakkipari Koski-Hernandez sekä keskikenttä Voutilainen-Jansen-Krebs oli aika lukkoonlyöty ja nämä kulutettiin puhki, mikä näkyi syksyllä. Vasaran ongelma on tietysti se, ettei penkin laatu ole lähellekään samaa eli vähän kuin pakon edestä näitä peluutettiin illasta toiseen. Jopa keskenkuntoinen Voutilainen on parempi kuin penkin vastaava ja silloin häntä peluutetaan koska parhaat pelaa. Materiaali on kapea, tästä en syytä Vasaraa. Baak ja Ortiz tuovat laadukasta leveyttä mikä on tärkeää myös europelejä varten.

[Hugh]

Nähdäkseni Mateo Ortiz ja Florian Baak on hankittu juuri kierrätystä varten. Viime kaudella tosiaan pakkipari Koski-Hernandez sekä keskikenttä Voutilainen-Jansen-Krebs oli aika lukkoonlyöty ja nämä kulutettiin puhki, mikä näkyi syksyllä. Vasaran ongelma on tietysti se, ettei penkin laatu ole lähellekään samaa eli vähän kuin pakon edestä näitä peluutettiin illasta toiseen. Jopa keskenkuntoinen Voutilainen on parempi kuin penkin vastaava ja silloin häntä peluutetaan koska parhaat pelaa. Materiaali on kapea, tästä en syytä Vasaraa. Baak ja Ortiz tuovat laadukasta leveyttä mikä on tärkeää myös europelejä varten.

Olen samaa mieltä Hongan materiaalin kapeudesta ja parhaille kannattaa antaa tietysti paljon peliaikaa. Lähinnä vaan jäänyt mieleen, että viime kesänä ja syksyllä Hongan avaus oli muistaakseni hyvin usein täysin sama (Rudakov ; Aalto-Hernandez-Koski-Rale ; Voutilainen-Jansen-Krebs ; Arko-Mensah-Modesto ; Sadiku). Tai jos ei ollut tuo, niin se johtui useimmiten siitä, että joku noista oli loukkaantunut / pelikiellossa. Nyt tämä kausi on aloitettu kahdessa ekassa matsissa muuten ihan tuolla samalla avarilla, paitsi Modesto on vaihtunut Kaufmanniin ja Sadiku Koskiseen.

Vielä on tosiaan ihan ennenaikaista sanoa, ketkä tänä vuonna tulevat Hongassa eniten peliminuutteja saamaan, ja varmasti tuo avari tulee elämään. Joka tapauksessa pidän mahdollisena, että kierrättämisen puute saattaa muodostua yhdeksi Hongan kompastuskiveksi. Penkiltä kuitenkin löytyy Baak, Ortiz, Bauque, Alegria, Saarikivi, Muzinga, Laine jne, joita voisi hyvin välillä heittää avaukseen. Saapa nähdä.

Jotta ei menisi ihan pelkäksi Honka-jutusteluksi, niin pitää todeta, että monta mielenkiintoista matsia tässä lähikierroksilla. Mielenkiinnolla odotan, miten vahvan alkukevään pelanneet oululaiset selviävät seuraavista otteluistaan (HJK vieraissa, SJK kotona). Ja KuPSin täytyisi alkaa raapia pisteitä kasaan, kun saavat kotikentälleen tällä viikolla ensin keskiviikkona Hongan ja sitten sunnuntaina Ilveksen.

[tetapi]

AC Oulu ja SJK. Saa ottaa talteen.

Hivenen jäävinä allekirjoitan tämän mielelläni, olkoonkin että SJK:ta minun pitäisi nähdä vielä lisää ja keskinäisen jälkeen voi vertailla paremmin. Seinäjoella joukkue on vahvistunut runko koostuu pitkälti eteenpäin menevistä pelaajista ja syvyyttä tuntuisi löytyvän.  Omassa joukkueessa eniten miellyttää tekemisen laatu ja sen kehittäminen pelkästään pelistä puhuttaessa. Syvyyttä löytyy mielestäni hyvin ja Cup on hyvä paikka tuoda muutamia pelaajia paremmin mukaan sekä framille.

Vähän vastavuoroisesti täytyy sanoa, että nähdyn perusteella VPS tulee olemaan vittumainen vastus tälläkin kaudella ja uudet pelaajat on nähtävä enempi mahdollisuutena. Kumminkin idea lienee myös Vaasassa mennä eteenpäin, toki omilla työkaluilla ja vahvuuksilla. Tämä ei poista sitä, että Alangon ei tarvitse tehdä yhtään maalia ja eipä juuri muutakaan.

[Norjalainen]

I think this is the correct place to ask this; I know there is an overview of the total announced player budgets by the clubs, but is there any overview of what the clubs spend on wages per player? As in, what do an average squad player earn in a club, and what does a big shot earn, what would a club spend on an exciting talent from abroad? I would ask the same about transfer fees, but either transfermarkt don't pay attention or Finnish club actually hold on to those secrets well and nobody knows, as opposed to Norway where we know the transfer fee before the player has landed in the country.

I am asking because I am trying to really get to know all the clubs as well as I can, it is just hard when "all" I know in Finnish is how to count to 10 and most of the swears, so also if anyone really wants to tell me all there is to know about their club you can send me a message. Myself I'm a Rosenborg-supporter(sorry, Honka), and I don't really have one favourite club in Finland, so if anyone also wants to tell me the bad stuff about other clubs than their own in a message, I'll listen to that as well!

[Kim Suomisen ponnari]

I think this is the correct place to ask this; I know there is an overview of the total announced player budgets by the clubs, but is there any overview of what the clubs spend on wages per player? As in, what do an average squad player earn in a club, and what does a big shot earn, what would a club spend on an exciting talent from abroad? I would ask the same about transfer fees, but either transfermarkt don't pay attention or Finnish club actually hold on to those secrets well and nobody knows, as opposed to Norway where we know the transfer fee before the player has landed in the country.

I am asking because I am trying to really get to know all the clubs as well as I can, it is just hard when "all" I know in Finnish is how to count to 10 and most of the swears, so also if anyone really wants to tell me all there is to know about their club you can send me a message. Myself I'm a Rosenborg-supporter(sorry, Honka), and I don't really have one favourite club in Finland, so if anyone also wants to tell me the bad stuff about other clubs than their own in a message, I'll listen to that as well!

Unfortunately clubs don't reveal any kind of information regarding wages of their respective staff. Finnish government reports about previous calendar year's taxes on annual basis and from that public information people usually sum up the most known players here on this forum. Check out the topic "Palkat 2021" where you can find at least some familiar names even from today's Veikkausliiga.

When it comes to actual fees that Finnish clubs pay for young players from abroad, it has to be said that it is very rare. 99% of all the abroad players come here as a free agent and when Finnish clubs actually pay some transfer fees, they usually are some kind of projects. For example HJK landed a relatively unknown striker, Alfredo Morelos (who has made himself a household name in Scotland during recent years), on loan with an option to purchase the player. He did really well here and HJK paid some a "big" transfer fee (big in Finnish standards) and sold him to Rangers on profit almost right away. HJK is pretty much the only club at the moment that can perform stunts like this economy-wise so other teams can only sign foreign youngsters and/or unknown names on longer contracts (which is also a rarity here in Veikkausliiga) and hope that they gain some star-like qualities right away so they can be sold elsewhere with a profit.

[Norjalainen]

I will take a look at that, thanks for the tip!

Is there a story on how HJK landed Morelos in the first place? I don't know how Finnish clubs operate when it comes to having their own scouts, because mostly it seems to me that there are agents offering players, trials and some cooperation with clubs on some level. It would be interesting to know. I was cheeky enough to try to ask some clubs about this directly through emails, but I have been ignored so far. I also wanted to ask about the short contracts that clubs use, that must hurt economically in the long run, when players won't be sold on transfer fees, but instead leave for free - or with some solidarity contribution, or as in Santeri Väänänen's case, a fee from Rosenborg for a sell-on percentage instead. Is it really that clubs can't commit to the costs over that long of a time, or is it players that want the option to go?

[Jojeli]

I will take a look at that, thanks for the tip!

Is there a story on how HJK landed Morelos in the first place? I don't know how Finnish clubs operate when it comes to having their own scouts, because mostly it seems to me that there are agents offering players, trials and some cooperation with clubs on some level. It would be interesting to know. I was cheeky enough to try to ask some clubs about this directly through emails, but I have been ignored so far. I also wanted to ask about the short contracts that clubs use, that must hurt economically in the long run, when players won't be sold on transfer fees, but instead leave for free - or with some solidarity contribution, or as in Santeri Väänänen's case, a fee from Rosenborg for a sell-on percentage instead. Is it really that clubs can't commit to the costs over that long of a time, or is it players that want the option to go?

This video goes quite in depth into the recruiting process of Morelos:
https://youtu.be/5yBIlIkSdgo

[Kim Suomisen ponnari]

I also wanted to ask about the short contracts that clubs use, that must hurt economically in the long run, when players won't be sold on transfer fees, but instead leave for free - or with some solidarity contribution, or as in Santeri Väänänen's case, a fee from Rosenborg for a sell-on percentage instead. Is it really that clubs can't commit to the costs over that long of a time, or is it players that want the option to go?

The main reason for all these 1-year contracts, even for Finnish players, is pretty often money. Even though a totally unknown foreign player (here on this forum we people tend to use term "lottery ticket" so don't get bedazzled if Google Translate offers you that term quite a lot regarding player acquisitions) is quite cheap, they still are a heavy load just to sit on the bench if they happen to disappoint. It also stings a bit that Veikkausliiga is played during the so called "opposite market rotation" compared to the bigger markets so when a player signs a 2-year deal on January, performs extremely well on that first full season, the European club who is interested on this player usually buys this player when their ongoing season is over, which means that the mentioned 2-year contract has only six months left (unless the buyer does business during the January window).

[Norjalainen]

For sure, we have the exact same situation in Norway there, except clubs here don't know what's good for them and throw long contracts to anyone that wants them. But I would assume, and hope, that if a player is actually well scouted and tested, a club would give a player a longer contract? Because most players that do well in the league, especially HJK-players in European competition, would be of interest to foreign clubs within that second year, and I assume clubs are very aware of this as well.

[torki]

AC Oulu ja SJK. Saa ottaa talteen.

Samat kuin meikäläisen liigaskabarivissä, eli aivan varmasti menee väärin.

[Burger King]

I think this is the correct place to ask this; I know there is an overview of the total announced player budgets by the clubs, but is there any overview of what the clubs spend on wages per player? As in, what do an average squad player earn in a club, and what does a big shot earn, what would a club spend on an exciting talent from abroad? I would ask the same about transfer fees, but either transfermarkt don't pay attention or Finnish club actually hold on to those secrets well and nobody knows, as opposed to Norway where we know the transfer fee before the player has landed in the country.

If i remember correctly the average yearly earning for a Veikkausliiga player is about 24k euros per year. Basically many of the fans are richer than most Veikkausliiga players. Also i need to mention that the new TV-contract has increased a lot from 150k to 500k so it might have changed a bit. Usually a youngster from abroad is a loan from a big club or a free agent from a third world country that gets payed just enough to live.
It's always fun to answer to someone from abroad that is intrested in our football.

[Norjalainen]

I really appreciate the help!

I have been following Finnish football lightly for two years since I got a Finnish girlfriend who is as passionate about football as I am, and Finnish football is great to watch, but at the end of the last season after Rosenborg was linked to Sadiku in the summer, and later Väänänen, I decided to take it a bit more seriously, and that escalated from deciding to watch all matches to writing player reports and trying to go even deeper into it.

[Utelias Vili]

But I would assume, and hope, that if a player is actually well scouted and tested, a club would give a player a longer contract? Because most players that do well in the league, especially HJK-players in European competition, would be of interest to foreign clubs within that second year, and I assume clubs are very aware of this as well.

I guess it's mostly agents who suggest players to clubs; I don't think most clubs don't have dedicated scouts on their books. Scouting is prolly done via youtube-highlights lol.
Test periods are used, but if we exclude hjk from the discussion, clubs don't have funds to take the risk to give 3year deals to "unknown" players. Perhaps some 1+1 deals with club option, but I guess there are some release clauses on those deals too.

Guess it mainly goes like, club sees a promising "local" 16/17 yo player, throws the 3 year deal -> If player is good enough to go to Europe at 17/18yo club can sell the player. If the breakout happens at the age of 18/19, it's rare that the player signs a new deal at that point rather than seek a new club as free agent.

European games are a good window for players, but the teams that qualify for the cups are changing yearly so there is no long term "sure money" for selected pack of clubs that would give them some financial leeway.

[Norjalainen]

I think 15 years ago, the sporting director of Rosenborg said they didn't need scouts, because they had so many agents calling them all the time. Luckily it changed when there was a few changes in the club and they realised a scout doesn't just tell you who to buy, but also who not to, and that have saved a lot of money. In Norway it is common for the smaller clubs, which still have a larget budget than Finnish clubs I guess, to have scouts work full time, but be hired on a 20% part-time contract.

I saw Inter signed a player on a 1+2 year deal today, I can't remember having seen it that way before, usually I've seen 2+1s. Also does the player have any say in that extension? And are release clauses legal in Finland? I know they are illegal in Norway, and clubs will get in trouble even for just a "gentleman's agreement" on selling a player for a set sum.

And I guess it's a sign of trying to run the clubs in a healthy way if they do not overspend on false ambitions.

[Jones]

What do you think the next happen now?

[Norjalainen]

What do you think the next happen now?

Where, and with what?

[werner]

Where, and with what?

They are teaching you the basics now. Sorry for that.

[Kosmoksen Härkä]

Those nasty Lahti junkies always messing around!

[Zazar]

Myself I'm a Rosenborg-supporter(sorry, Honka), and I don't really have one favourite club in Finland

There is only one real Finnish Rosenborg, VPS

[Hunaja]

Those nasty Lahti junkies always messing around!

Did you mean Lahi monkeys

[Huupponen]

I prefer monkeys over junkies.

[Norjalainen]

There is only one real Finnish Rosenborg, VPS

I might need an explanation about that, I found an old thread talking about it, but I don't quite understand it. But what it takes to be like Rosenborg from Trondheim today is to hire coaches who play football who differs from the club's identity, spend a lot of money with little gain, watch your rivals from tiny towns dominate the league, and get lucky on a huge sale and hope that's gonna turn fortunes around!