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Kirjoittaja Aihe: Veikkausliiga attendances and finances  (Luettu 4278 kertaa)
0 jäsentä ja 1 vieras katselee tätä aihetta.
Homer

Poissa Poissa

Suosikkijoukkue: Valkeakosken Haka


Vastaus #50 : 08.07.2007 klo 00:38:52

Näin siis sillä oletuksella, että katsojia ei tulisi yrityskausikorteilla, yrityslipuilla, yritysten jakamilla ilmaislipuilla, erotuomari- ja muilla liiton vapaakorteilla, pressikorteilla jne.

Kun näiden mukanaan tuoma efekti otetaan huomioon, tulee lukemaksi about tuo 2,5-3 euroa. Itse tosin laskin sen vähän toisinpäin, kuten aiemmasta viestistä käy ilmi.

Ilmeisesti yli puolet katsojista tulevat noilla "ilmaislipuilla". Tällainen vaikutelma on jäänyt ainakin Tampereella. Valkeakoskella tilanne on hieman toinen. Siellä näkee paljon ostettuja kausikortteja, yksittäislippujen ostajia jne. suhteessa katsojamäärään.
V

Poissa Poissa

Suosikkijoukkue: VPS


Vastaus #51 : 08.07.2007 klo 13:13:38

Ennakkolipuista kiskotaan vaan nykyään 1,5 euron käsittelymaksu, joten se siitä.

Itselleni on ollut positiivinen yllätys se, että kun sarjalippukirjan lipun vaihtaa ennakkoon Lippupalvelussa ottelulippuun, ei tuosta veloiteta  palvelu- tai käsittelymaksua. Kohta varmaan keksivät senkin.
TampereOwl

Poissa Poissa


Vastaus #52 : 08.07.2007 klo 13:58:07

My thanks to TampereOwl and Maakuntasatraappi for this interesting topic. It's a shame, however, that your opening was responded with such a rubbish.

My tip for TampereOwl is this: since the Finnish clubs are rather reluctant to disclose any financial information that exceeds the minimal level set by Act of (Finnish) LLCs, you probably should focus only on this information in order to proceed with your study. A good start is to identify the legal entity and the form of a legal entity that runs the particular football business you wish to obtain information for. For example, Tampere United is a limited liability company (OY) and is the legal entity managing the operations of my favourite squad. Thus, the financials of Tampere United LLC fully reflect the financial status and business prospects of team Tampere United.

Well, You may ask, how to get this information then? At first, I need to say, disclosing financial information, which includes the balance sheet, income statement, notes to the financial statement, audit story and a cover letter by the general director (propably including information you wish to read), is mandatory. This information is then available at the Chamber Archive, availabe only in Finnish at http://www.prh.fi/fi/tietokannat/katka-yreka.html.

However, commercial services also exist and my favourite is http://www.asiakastieto.fi/aarre/ or www.aarre.fi. This service has a small fee (there's a price list but special discounts do exist). Aarre services include a thorough analysis of mandatory disclosure, credit ratings, comparison between selected business entities etc. There's a lot of interesting news for a curious reader, but due to legal aspects I recommend not to post them to the Internet.

Anyhow, I wish you good luck - hopefully that you will link your blog on these pages?


Thank you, that's very interesting. I'm not a financial journalist though, and reading all of that in English would be quite arduous, never mind Finnish. Maybe there is a Finnish football journalist who would be willing and able to get all that information, or maybe already has it? I don't think I could stretch to 47 euro for each club, as Aare seem to be charging for all their info. Someone with a sympathetic employer would be a better bet than a speculative freelancer. I get no money for my veikkausliiga stuff.

Is the chamber of commerce info the basis for the licences awarded at the start of the season? Iposted the plans of each team on my blog when they appeared at the start of the season, mainly their projected playing and non-playing budgets and break even attendance targets. I'm assuming it's the SPL that gives the licences out, do they have auditors in or is it just the secretary leafing through an application?

I'm interested in the debate about average ticket prices too, as that is key to my calculations. My current formula involves quite a high value and relatively few concessions, but if somebody has different information I'm willing to change it.

The blog is at http://footballinfinland.blogspot.com.
Möpsi

Poissa Poissa


Vastaus #53 : 08.07.2007 klo 15:33:29

Some info of VPS. Sorry only in Finnish. VPS have given an impression they are quite open about their finances. They say their budgeted gate income is about 30 % ie. average 2200 (for the season 2006).

http://www.veikkausliiga.com/News.aspx?type=1&ID=23745

Valittu hallitus päätti kokouksessaan torstaina 8.2.2007 alkaneen tilikauden budjettiraameista, joiksi hyväksyttiin myyntibudjetti 975 000 euroa (edellisen tilikauden budjetti 836 000, kasvua 17 %), kulubudjetti 937 000 euroa (823 000, 15 %) sekä valmentaja- ja pelaajabudjetti 515 000 euroa (440 000, 17 %). Hallitus valitsi keskuudestaan puheenjohtajakseen Asko Kamppisen.

http://www.vps-vaasa.fi/Default.aspx?id=431739

30.11.2005 päättyneen tilikauden tuloksen, kauden 1.12.2005 - 30.11.2006 budjetin sekä strategiset tavoitteet.

http://www.vps-vaasa.fi/Default.aspx?id=505275

VPS Oy:n hallituksen puheenjohtaja Veli-Matti Ristiluoma ja toimitusjohtaja Eero Karhumäki esittelivät tilivuoden 2006 (1.12.2005 - 30.11.2006) keskeiset tiedot

http://www.vps-vaasa.fi/Default.aspx?id=433875

Kokouksessa hyväksyttiin mm. toimintakertomus tilikaudelta 1.11.2004 - 30.11.2005,
Ior Bock

Poissa Poissa

Suosikkijoukkue: HJK, Ajax Amsterdam. Winnipeg Jets


Vastaus #54 : 08.07.2007 klo 19:59:12

Don`t trust ´maakuntasatraappi, his stupid :( Alas
Krilatskoje

Poissa Poissa


Vastaus #55 : 09.07.2007 klo 10:44:15

Thank you, that's very interesting. I'm not a financial journalist though, and reading all of that in English would be quite arduous, never mind Finnish. Maybe there is a Finnish football journalist who would be willing and able to get all that information, or maybe already has it? I don't think I could stretch to 47 euro for each club, as Aare seem to be charging for all their info. Someone with a sympathetic employer would be a better bet than a speculative freelancer. I get no money for my veikkausliiga stuff.

I see. In my previous job I had online access to the Chamber Archive and commercial online databases providing up-to-date financial information. Especially some commercial services provide interesting information about Finnish clubs’ outstanding invoices and other similar liquidity related problems, which often gave me a very different impression of the financials than the league’s audit body. But due to copyrights I never posted them to the Internet even though the option of making league’s audit body look ridiculous was a very tempting idea.

Is the chamber of commerce info the basis for the licences awarded at the start of the season? Iposted the plans of each team on my blog when they appeared at the start of the season, mainly their projected playing and non-playing budgets and break even attendance targets. I'm assuming it's the SPL that gives the licences out, do they have auditors in or is it just the secretary leafing through an application?

Well as I said, I don’t know the facts but I think league’s audit body relies more on hearings than hard facts. And we all like to hear good stories rather than bad facts, don’t we? So with this in mind, rather than a real audit I think they rely more on budget prospects with budgets’ often not so pessimistic calculations.

Thank's for the blog. I will be reading it.
Möpsi

Poissa Poissa


Vastaus #56 : 09.07.2007 klo 11:17:54

I posted the plans of each team on my blog when they appeared at the start of the season, mainly their projected playing and non-playing budgets

I remember MyPa´s GM Seppo Mäkinen critisizing (was it in the beginning of the season 2006?) about those published numbers wondering that they are not compareable between the clubs. Maybe Veikkauliiga has learned nowadays the lesson? Anyway numbers (be they attendances  8) or finances) seem not to be the strongest know-how at Veikkausliiga.
Boris Pugo

Poissa Poissa


Vastaus #57 : 09.07.2007 klo 11:21:14

Don`t trust ´maakuntasatraappi, his stupid :(

 :D Ylos
Taigu

Poissa Poissa

Suosikkijoukkue: En keskustele yleisömääristä - älä sinäkään!


Vastaus #58 : 09.07.2007 klo 11:30:13

Boss topic!
TampereOwl

Poissa Poissa


Vastaus #59 : 09.07.2007 klo 11:50:46

I see. In my previous job I had online access to the Chamber Archive and commercial online databases providing up-to-date financial information. Especially some commercial services provide interesting information about Finnish clubs’ outstanding invoices and other similar liquidity related problems, which often gave me a very different impression of the financials than the league’s audit body. But due to copyrights I never posted them to the Internet even though the option of making league’s audit body look ridiculous was a very tempting idea.

Well as I said, I don’t know the facts but I think league’s audit body relies more on hearings than hard facts. And we all like to hear good stories rather than bad facts, don’t we? So with this in mind, rather than a real audit I think they rely more on budget prospects with budgets’ often not so pessimistic calculations.

Thank's for the blog. I will be reading it.

Interesting.

About this audit body - is it independent, or are they Veikkausliiga staffers? Do you have any contact details for them? I tried Teuvo at SPL, no reply yet.

One more thing. Did they make any changes to their procedures after the Sino-Belgian takeover at Allianssi?
Möpsi

Poissa Poissa


Vastaus #60 : 09.07.2007 klo 12:34:57

Interesting.

About this audit body - is it independent, or are they Veikkausliiga staffers? Do you have any contact details for them? I tried Teuvo at SPL, no reply yet.

One more thing. Did they make any changes to their procedures after the Sino-Belgian takeover at Allianssi?

In Finnish Liigalisenssimääräykset:

http://www.palloliitto.fi/mp/db/file_library/x/IMG/83748/file/LIIGALISENSSIMaaRaYKSET2007.doc

Liigalisenssit 2007:

http://www.veikkausliiga.com/uutisluku.asp?id=23586

Ie. 6 members, 3 from SPL and 3 from Veikkausliiga. Couldn´t find the names.

If I remember right after Allianssi an addition was put there something like: “Before selling the club, we Lisenssilautalunta should be fully informed to aprove the ownership change.” Actually it already was said in the rules in general terms, and in the Allianssi case informing was more informal.
Krilatskoje

Poissa Poissa


Vastaus #61 : 09.07.2007 klo 16:18:56

Interesting.

About this audit body - is it independent, or are they Veikkausliiga staffers? Do you have any contact details for them? I tried Teuvo at SPL, no reply yet.

One more thing. Did they make any changes to their procedures after the Sino-Belgian takeover at Allianssi?

Mopsi was first. The audit body consists of 6 members - 3 from the league and the rest from the SPL. They check clubs financials, legal prospects, stadium conditions, safety issues etc. Considering members background it wouldn’t surprise me had they more interest in justifying the license than reasons not to give it. At least the arguments for refusal need to be solid rock.

Btw, I’m not criticizing the audit body in general but only the somewhat sketchy financial analysis they use. There are a number of reasons for body’s existence. For example, the body works as a bad cop for which to refer when the clubs walk into speeches with city fathers requiring stadium improvements etc.
« Viimeksi muokattu: 09.07.2007 klo 16:32:09 kirjoittanut Krilatskoje »
TampereOwl

Poissa Poissa


Vastaus #62 : 09.07.2007 klo 21:59:57

Thanks for your help, both of you.

I don't intend to slate the body completely, it is certainly a bit more robust than the procedures that (don't) exist in England. just look at what Ken Bates is trying to do at the moment at Leeds.

I'll try and have a look, investigate what's going on and write something halfway interesting. I don't want to be a morbid ambulance chaser, but a club going bankrupt would really help me to sell something on this......

 
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